ANY QUOTES USED MUST BE ATTRIBUTED TO MURNAGHAN, SKY NEWS

DERMOT MURNAGHAN:
NHS data, including patient records, could be shared with private healthcare companies. David Cameron is set to announce the plans for greater collaboration between the health service and life science companies as a way of boosting the economy. Well the Shadow Health Secretary, Andy Burnham, joins us live from Warrington, a very good morning to you Mr Burnham. This is win-win is it not? If care is taken about anonymity and the way the data is presented it could be good for the NHS and indeed good for the wider economy.

ANDY BURNHAM:
Possibly. Let me start with where I agree with David Cameron, like him I see the life science sector as an important part of Britain’s industrial future but the Prime Minister has to tread very carefully. We hear lots of talk about red tape from this government but there are some areas where proper regulation is absolutely essential and use of patient records is most certainly one of those areas. More broadly though we have a major disagreement with the Prime Minister on the extent of the involvement with the private sector in the NHS. It would seem that he sees no limits at all on the role the private sector can play and is putting large chunks of our NHS up for sale. Now our NHS is too precious to too many people for that to happen and we will fight him all the way on that.

DERMOT MURNAGHAN:
But just to be clear about this specific proposals, I mean private life science companies, if that data, if anonymity is protected sufficiently, you would accept that in terms of private company involvement?

ANDY BURNHAM:
Yes, I’m not saying I am necessarily opposed to what the Prime Minister is saying, I will study his words very carefully indeed but this government has a cavalier approach to these matter and, as I say, use of patient data is absolutely essential and we have already heard that one of the patient’s groups that were on the working group in the Department of Health looking at this issue, has walked away. Now that gives real cause for concern and rings alarm bells and the government simply can’t say this is all red tape and it all must be brushed away. Proper regulation, essential safeguards, need to be in place when it comes to the use of patient data.

DERMOT MURNAGHAN:
But hats off to them surely in your book for attempting to harness or unleash some of the mighty power of the NHS, to use the data and its expertise of course as well to benefit the economy.

ANDY BURNHAM:
Well this is an area where Labour in government put a huge amount of focus. We created an Office for Life Sciences to improve the partnership between the NHS and the pharmaceutical industry so as I say, there is no objection here to the principle of better partnership between the NHS and the life sciences industry, it can be good for both sides as you’ve said, Dermot, but it can’t be done in a way where essential rules are simply thrown out and I have worries about some of the Prime Minister’s language. We’ve also seen on a bigger picture with his NHS reorganisation, there they are talking about multi-national private companies coming in to run the commissioning decisions in the NHS and that was one of the major reasons why the British Medical Association took the momentous decision last week to oppose this Bill outright. Now that really shows that there are major concerns with the way in which this government is opening the NHS up to the private sector and this statement today needs to be looked at in that context.

DERMOT MURNAGHAN:
And you are also concerned about the cost of the governments reforms but the government has pointed out that when you were in charge of the Health Service you asked Primary Health Trusts to hold back 2% of their budget for just these kind of reorganisations.

ANDY BURNHAM:
Well I am very worried about the cost. This is the wrong time to reorganise the NHS. The NHS is facing the biggest financial challenge in its history and the last thing it needs right now is a total top to bottom reorganisation. We have put the cost of that reorganisation at £3.44 billion and that’s because the government has asked Primary Care Trusts to set aside 2% of their budgets this year and next year. The big difference, Dermot, between what I did as Health Secretary, I said that 2% should be used to transform patient care, to find new ways of delivering services that could save money, it was money that was going into patient services. It was not money to pay for redundancies, for consultants, for all of the wasteful costs that come with an unnecessary and dangerous reorganisation. David Cameron stood for election saying there would be no top down reorganisation of the NHS, nobody voted for this reorganisation and that’s why I am saying to him very clearly, it is time to drop this dangerous bill.

DERMOT MURNAGHAN:
Okay and lastly can I just ask you, the pensions issue of course a major one within the NHS, your former colleague Lord Hutton is quoted today as saying after that review he carried out into pensions, the parlous state of the economy means it is even more urgent that these things happen.

ANDY BURNHAM:
Yes, I think all sides, all political parties, government and trade unions, would do well to listen to what John Hutton has got to say today and I think there are messages there for everybody to reflect upon but he has said again that the 3% surcharge that the government has put on public sector pensions could be very counter-productive indeed because if people opt out of pensions schemes and can’t afford basically to carry on paying into their public sector pension, that would cost us all in the long run and it is a very, very important thing that he said so I hope the government will listen to that. This tax on people at this particular time is very, very unfair. I mean where are they meant to find the money from? We are seeing people’s salaries frozen in the NHS, we’re seeing nurses being down banded, we’re seeing redundancies – basically people haven’t got the money and the government needs to rethink on that particular issue and listen to John Hutton.

DERMOT MURNAGHAN:
Okay, Mr Burnham, thank you very much indeed. Andy Burnham, Shadow Health Secretary there.