Any quotes used must be attributed to Murnaghan, Sky News 

DERMOT MURNAGHAN:

As Labour delegates gather here in Liverpool, Ed Miliband says he would cap university tuition fees in England at £6000 a year.  In one of his most significant policy announcements since becoming leader, Mr Miliband claims Labour would ditch the £9000 upper limit for English universities.  In a moment my interview earlier this morning with Ed Miliband but first let me tell you about our Tweeters, also watching the discussion are our experts Vincent Moss, political editor of the Sunday Mirror, we’ve also got Alistair Heath, editor of City AM and Paul Waugh, he is the editor of Politics Home.  They’ll be providing their reactions via Twitter which you can read on the side panels, that’s if you are watching in HD, you can also follow on our website skynews.com/politics and of course join in using the hashtag #murnaghan. 

A very good morning to you Mr Miliband, it’s one year, exactly one year since you narrowly defeated your brother to capture the Labour leadership, what would you say have been your achievements as Labour leader in that time, given that the polls are virtually unchanged since you took over?

ED MILIBAND:

I think what I’ve done is to set out, as I’ve gone round and listened to people about their  issues in the country, what I think needs to change about Britain and I think the most important thing is that we need a country that works better for Britain’s families because at the moment we have a country that isn’t working for them, that’s the overwhelming sense I’ve got as I’ve talked to people.  They’ve talked about their squeezed living standards, what’s happening to young people and if you take what we are announcing today on tuition fees which no doubt we’ll come on to, that’s a clear sign of who Labour wants to stand up for and that’s what my leadership has been about.

DERMOT MURNAGHAN:

So I’m interested in that, so it’s been a listening process because as I say, the polls haven’t moved, your own personal rating is very lower, 63% of those people polled say they can’t see you as being a potential leader of the country.

ED MILIBAND:

Look, when you lose an election, as we did very, very badly in 2010, I think the electorate rightly says you need time in the corner if you like, sort of sorting yourself out and that’s what we did to go and listen to people.  We went out and said let’s hear from people what they’re saying about their own lives and I think now is a chance for us at this conference to go out and say to them, look, here’s how we think we can change things and that’s what we’ve started to do today.  I think my job is not to look at the polls, it is to worry about the British people and how I can help them and that’s what I’m going to do as Labour leader.

DERMOT MURNAGHAN:

So this is a turning point, a year on you have had the listening process and now the conversation starts.  We start hearing back from you and your leadership team about what your policies are because again, just on the polling, you know what they say about you – you’re weak, you’re smug, you’re out of your depth – and you’ve got to show people you’re not.

ED MILIBAND:

Well clearly I don’t agree with that and I think you can look at these things in different ways.  What I say is I know what I’m about, I know where I want to take the country, I know the country isn’t working for people right up and down Britain and we’ve got to change that and I’m going to start showing at this conference how we can change that.

DERMOT MURNAGHAN:

So blank page no more, that was your own phrase when you started in terms of policies, blank page no more.  You mentioned tuition fees, you are starting to fill it in, you want to see tuition fees cut from the £9000 they’ll hit next year in some cases to a maximum of £6000?

ED MILIBAND:

Yes, that’s right because I think what we see in Britain today is the wrong people being hit as a result of the cuts that are being made so what we have seen over the last few years is people at the top, in the banks and so on, taking what they can, being in it for themselves and actually what we see are hard working families who are worried about their kids getting on who have been clobbered with the trebling of tuition fees.  Now I want to do something about that and that’s why I’ve said let’s no go ahead with the bank tax cut that the government is planning, let’s use that money instead to help us cut tuition fees from £9000 to £6000.  I think that’s the right thing to do, not just because it’s good for people – that’s important – but because it shows how we want to change the economy.  Not a fast buck economy, the era of the fast buck has got to come to an end, but actually an economy based on long term values, long term investment in our young people.

DERMOT MURNAGHAN:

In terms of how it affects those young people when they graduate, they’ll still have a lot of debt, £40,000 odd worth of debt instead of £50,000, why not back to Labour’s original policy, the policy you had when you were in government, take them back to £3000?

ED MILIBAND:

Because I’m only going to do what I can afford to do.  This is a credible costed policy and if I came on this programme and made a promise that I couldn’t keep you’d be the first one to say that’s ridiculous, you can’t do that.  I’m making a clear and costed and credible plan for how we can change things and I think that’s what people want from us.  I sense that we’re standing up for them and things can be different because what I sense going round the country is fear, fear about the economic crisis that is gripping the world which I’m sure we’ll come on to, but also fear about their own lives and I want us to be the people who show we can offer people hope and I think we can at this conference.

DERMOT MURNAGHAN:

I do want to come on to that in a moment but just on this policy, there is also hidden in there a tax rise in effect for those earning over £65,000 after they graduate …

ED MILIBAND:

Well it’s not hidden …

DERMOT MURNAGHAN:

It’s going to be a higher rate of interest which in effect is a graduate tax which is what you were  in favour of.

ED MILIBAND:

Indeed, it’s not hidden at all, I’m very clear about this.  I think it’s fairer to say that the highest earning graduates, those earning over £65,000 a year, should pay somewhat more because I think that’s a fairer system.

DERMOT MURNAGHAN:

How much more?

ED MILIBAND:

Well it’ll depend because what we’re going to say is that people will pay an extra couple of years, if they are destined to pay off their loan early they will pay an extra couple of years.  Now how much they pay depends on how much they earn because that’s the way the fee system works but I think it’s the right thing to do and I tell you why I think it’s the right thing to do, because actually we are going to get lots of people, talented people, put off from going to university by £9000 fees.  If we can make a difference to that by raising the tax on the highest earning graduates and taking money from the banks, it’s the right thing to do.

DERMOT MURNAGHAN:

Right, let’s move on to the economy because there we are, you’ve given me a costed policy, you have so many other policies that don’t seem to be costed yet you still have this aspiration to halve the deficit over four years yet your Shadow Chancellor has told us you’re in favour of cutting VAT which would be swimming against the tide in that respect.

ED MILIBAND:

Well I think the mistake you’re making, Dermot, if I may say so, is the same mistakes that governments made which is to see deficit reduction and economic growth as two separate things.  They’re not, they’re connected.  You can’t have a credible plan on the deficit without actually making our economy grow and the reason Ed Balls made that proposal, a proposal which I think is the right proposal for the country, is what’s happened to the British economy?  It’s flatlining, it’s not growing, that’s why the government is missing its borrowing forecast.  The only way we are going to meet our deficit, what we need to do on the deficit, is by growing our economy.  Yes, there are some tax rises that have been made and yes, we’d have to cut some things if we were government …

DERMOT MURNAGHAN:

It’s a leap of faith though in this environment isn’t it, to try to borrow more money?

ED MILIBAND:

No, what it is saying is actually we’ve got to grow our economy.  Look round the world, there are lots of countries with a debt problem but there is a global growth problem and I tell you this honestly, 18 months ago there were lots of people saying the government has got it right by going so far and so fast. There are many fewer people saying it now the government is sticking to it.  I think they are wrong to stick to it, profoundly wrong, because unless you grow your economy you are never going to reduce the deficit.

DERMOT MURNAGHAN:

But in terms of that chicken and egg, that growing the economy, you are talking about spending to make the economy grow so you would have to borrow to do that spending.

ED MILIBAND:

No, what I’m talking about is what President Obama is doing in the United States which is to say you’ve got to get more money into the economy in order to stimulate it and get it to grow and I think it’s the right thing to do.  Think about it from the point of view of the individual, if you’ve got a credit card bill, sure you need to make savings but you need a job and an income coming in in order to pay off your credit card bill. Our problem in the British economy and indeed across the world is that if our economies don’t grow, we’re not going to be able to pay off the deficit and the debt.

DERMOT MURNAGHAN:

Okay, so where would the cuts fall?

ED MILIBAND:

What we’ve said is if we were in government now, there are cuts that the government have proposed that we would go along with, cuts to the road transport programme for example, changes in welfare, some changes in employer training costs, I could go on, a longer list.  We haven’t opposed every cut, a year ago that’s what I said, we’re not going to come along and oppose every cut but what we’re not going to do is support a plan under this government that isn’t working. That’s the truth, it isn’t working and that’s why I think the government has to change course.

DERMOT MURNAGHAN:

That message you took to the TUC, now we are surrounded here at the Labour party conference by a lot of your supporters in the unions, I can see Usdaw, GMB, Unite behind me.  You took that message to the TUC and it wasn’t entirely popular.  They want to see you, they are by and large Labour supporters, Labour voters, they want to see you supporting them in these difficult times, they want to see you giving them support if and when they take industrial action.

ED MILIBAND:

Look, I’m my own man, Dermot, and I am going to do things in my own way.  I’m going to say what I think’s right and that’s why I said I thought the strikes on June 30th were wrong because I thought it was wrong to go on strike at a time when negotiations were going on.  On the issue of pensions, I say the government has a big responsibility to get round the table and negotiate in good faith and stop those strikes happening but that’s who I am, I’m going to just say what I think.

DERMOT MURNAGHAN:

Are strikes wrong on November 30th if ballots go that way?

ED MILIBAND:

I think strikes have to be avoided on November 30th and there is a massive responsibility on government and the reason I say this, I wasn’t afraid to speak out on June 30th about the strikes and say that they were wrong but I think the government is not doing what actually they said they would do which is negotiate in good faith.  It is very interesting this, they commissioned this independent report from a former Labour Minister John Hutton, Lord Hutton, about pensions.  They are actually ignoring his report.  His report said have a negotiated solution and didn’t recommend the 3% tax rise on public sector workers that the government is putting in place. I say to the government, get round the table and avoid that strike happening.

DERMOT MURNAGHAN:

Say it fails, and it looks like it will, are strikes on November 30th justified?  Ed Ball and Harriet Harman have said in certain circumstances they could be justified.

ED MILIBAND:

I’m not going to get into the situation of speculation on those strikes because I don’t think that will be helpful. I don't think ramping up the rhetoric is what we need to do, getting round the table and solving the problem is what needs to happen.

DERMOT MURNAGHAN:

You are sitting on the fence, as I say these are by and large Labour voters who you talk about and …

ED MILIBAND:

I think the one thing you can’t accuse me of is sitting on the fence given what I said about June 30th.

DERMOT MURNAGHAN:

What about sticking up for hard working families, people whose incomes are squeezed, they are looking at their pensions further down the line, hundreds and thousands of them are concerned and may very well go out on strike and they want leadership from you.

ED MILIBAND:

Yes, what they want, what they want is a government that will properly negotiate with them and that’s why I say it is incumbent on the government.  There are two months until these possible strikes are going to happen, instead of speculating about the strikes let’s stop them happening, that’s what the government should be doing.

DERMOT MURNAGHAN:

So your message is, I support you as long as the negotiations continue but if you do go on strike I won’t support you?

ED MILIBAND:

No, my message is very clear which is that the government is not doing the right thing by public sector works and indeed others because it is not negotiating in good faith.  It’s their responsibility to get round the table and make that happen.

DERMOT MURNAGHAN:

Let’s get back to some of the policy areas, we talked about graduates there and the way you are filling that. Some say your finest hour during the course of your leadership came during the course of the phone hacking scandal, the News Corporation bid for BSkyB and then you had certainty, purpose and clarity and they are calling for you to bring that to so many other areas of policy, things that really matter to people like the NHS, like education, like the economy.

ED MILIBAND:

Well I’m very clear about where I stand and that’s why we’ve said what we said today on tuition fees and yesterday we were talking about energy companies and train companies that are ripping people off.  What does phone hacking teach me?       It teaches the need to speak out without fear or favour and that’s important but it also teaches something else which is that there are interests in this country, private vested interests which for too long have been allowed to do what they like and somebody has got to call a halt to that and I’m determined that we do that as a country.

DERMOT MURNAGHAN:

I’d like to … can I just ask you, was that a conviction call?  What were your advisors around you saying at the time, were they saying these are vested interests as you describe them or were they saying, perhaps you’d better tread carefully, maybe a bit of fence sitting but you said  no, no, no, I’m going to say what I believe for once?

ED MILIBAND:

Rule number one of politics is don’t take on Rupert Murdoch. I thought it was the right thing to do and look, it’s what I’ve tried to do throughout my time as Labour leader.  I’ve talked about the problems affecting ordinary families and this was a moment where I think obviously people were shocked by what had happened in the hacking of Millie Dowler’s phone and that’s why I said what I said and I’ll be doing more of that on Tuesday, more of that during this week.

DERMOT MURNAGHAN:

Okay, the certainty then, that purpose, education, free schools, academies, yes or no?

ED MILIBAND:

Well I don't think free schools are the right answer, I don't think they are the right answer for education in this country and I’ll tell you why, because they’re taking money away from certain schools to give to other schools, they are robbing Peter to pay Paul, schools that were expecting to be rebuilt.  I think there are real doubts about some of the admissions policies of some of the free schools and so I don't think free schools are the right answer for Britain, I’m very clear on that.

DERMOT MURNAGHAN:

What about academies?  Many say well free schools aren’t much different from Labour’s academies.

ED MILIBAND:

Well I think that academies … I’ll just tell you about my own constituency, I think that academies have made a positive difference.  They have made a positive difference for the failing schools where everything else has been tried and actually reopening them as a new school in a different way was the right thing to do so I support academies.

DERMOT MURNAGHAN:

And the free schools that have opened, if Labour comes back into power what happens to them?

ED MILIBAND:

Look I don’t want to close down bad schools, we’ll have to look at where we are at the time so obviously we’d have to make a judgement then but I’m not about closing down good schools, what I am about is saying that I don't think free schools are the answer for our country.

DERMOT MURNAGHAN:

Immigration now, Lord Glassman your advisor, you had him ennobled, said that Labour lied to the country about the scale of immigration while it was in government, do you share the current government’s aspirations to bring that down to the tens of thousands?

ED MILIBAND:

Well I don’t agree that we lied, I do agree that we got it wrong in a number of respects including under estimating the level of immigration from Poland which had a big effect on people in Britain.  I don't think you can make that promise about tens of thousands and I am about not making promises you can’t keep, because the government might pretend that it can control the amount of free movement of Labour within the European Union but it can’t because we have free movement of Labour within the European Union so I am not going to make promises we can’t keep.  On immigration I think it is right to have a tough policy, that’s why we introduced the points system and I think that was a good policy and I think it’s right that when it comes to future accession to the European Union, we take advantage of the transitional controls that we didn’t take advantage of in relation to Poland.

DERMOT MURNAGHAN:

So hundreds of thousands of people could still come here under Labour?

ED MILIBAND:

No, that’s not what I’m saying,  I’m  saying I’m not going to make promises that I can’t keep.  We need a tough immigration policy but I think free movement of Labour is right for Britain.  I’ll tell you what I think people were worried about in relation to Polish immigration in particular, was that they were seeing their wages, their living standards driven down.  Part of the job of government is if you are going to have an open economy within Europe you have got to give that protection to employees so that they don’t see workers coming in and undercutting them.

DERMOT MURNAGHAN:

So Romanians, Bulgarians, potentially Turks if they join the EU, would be free to come and go as they like?

ED MILIBAND:

Well it is obviously something we’d have to look at but I’m saying we’d take advantage of the transitional controls that we didn’t take advantage when Polish accession happened.

DERMOT MURNAGHAN:

Let me ask you about industrial policy because we’ve had this announcement or rumours today that BAE may be losing a considerable number of jobs, Bombardier we saw up in Derby losing a key contract, how interventionist would Labour be?  Would you be able to do something about those contracts, for instance, that saw the trains not go to Bombardier but go to Siemens?

ED MILIBAND:

Yes, I think – and again I’ll talk about this in my speech on Tuesday – I do think that there was an approach that we had in the past and it was shared to some extent by governments of both parties, which is there is nothing that can be done, the danger is we’ll go back to the 1970s and prop up loss making companies, British Leyland and the like.  I think there are ways you can support particular ways of the economy where you are going to succeed in the decisions government makes about procurement, i.e. what it buys, in the decisions it makes about other things that it does, training and so on, so I think we should support the sectors of the future and actually I think that’s what the private sector is crying out for, is government to sit down with the private sector and say how can we support you going forward and I don't think the government is doing that, including the case of Bombardier.

DERMOT MURNAGHAN:

Lastly, Mr Miliband, can I just ask you, given the polls I touched on earlier and some of the things the public say about you personally, I mean it’s tough, your job is tough, are you there for the long term?  Are you there to stay however tough it gets, you’re going to fight the next election for Labour?

ED MILIBAND:

Absolutely.  It’s a fantastic privilege to be doing this job and one should always remember that, it’s a privilege because of the people of Britain that I get to meet.  I know who I am, I know where I’m taking this party, I know that we can represent the hard working families of this country and that’s what I’m determined to do.

DERMOT MURNAGHAN:

Ed Miliband, thank you very much.

ED MILIBAND:

Thank you.